1/24/2010

Chapel at the Palace

Posted by MJ



 The Buffalo News reported that Alderman Chapman announced that the Chapel at Crosspoint will be having satellite services at the Palace starting on Easter.They will also be leasing 6,000 sqft of space at the Old Post Office across the street.

The Chapel at CrossPoint, the Amherst mega-church, will begin holding branch services in Lockport on April 4, Easter Sunday. Alderman Andrew D. Chapman, a member of the church, announced the arrangement at Wednesday’s Common Council meeting, and details were confirmed Thursday by the Rev. Matt Eisenhower, the pastor who will be assigned to Lockport.

Eisenhower said The Chapel will hold services Sunday mornings in the Palace Theatre, 2 East Ave., and also will lease about 6,000 square feet of space in the old post office across the street.
Eisenhower said that space will be used for administrative offices and for the church’s supplemental ministries, such as special programs targeted for men, women and children....
UPDATE 01-27-10:
LUSJ reported on the topic. They mention the important point of state liquor laws pertaing to location of establishments in regard to churches and the effect this can have DT in the future. Dissusion in the comments below.

50 comments:

Rocketboy said...
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LockportGal said...

Im not thrilled with this at all. They have a HUGE facility there in Amherst, why the need to expand?

Rocketboy said...
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HisSon said...

OK! We get it. Three negative comments. You are absolutely entitled to your opinions. How about some rock solid reasons why this is a bad idea.

Rocketboy said...
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Anonymous said...

Wow, Rocketboy, all I can say is I will keep you in my prayers.

HisSon said...

Please give me some examples of "lies, falsehoods, and blatant manipulation of the facts".

Where was anything said or even inferred about the "characterization of atheists as amoral and uncaring"?

We do have a point of agreement though. The Church of Scientology in Clearwater, FL is not a good situation.

I don't think anyone will try to force you to volunteer at the Palace. You are free to do as you see fit in this regard just as they are free to have a relationship with The Chapel if they so desire. My guess is that the Palace could maybe even gain some new volunteers as a result of this new relationship.

Did you happen to notice that the Chapel was one of many of the organizations both religious and secular who sent people to Haiti to try and help out as best they could? I would be hard pressed to not believe that some of those in other groups would not be atheists. I'm not an atheist but I'm reasonably certain that they are compassionate and caring just as people of Faith are.

BTW. I am not a member or attender at The Chapel and have no connection with them.

I will also be praying for you.

Rocketboy said...
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Rocketboy said...
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MJ said...

Yes, please lets try to keep on topic. They are rather open, as a discussion should be, but please refrain from making it personal. Also, everyone please try to be more complete in in your statements. Otherwise too much room is left for personal interpretation and comments start getting off track.

I do not see what is so scary about a non-denominational christian church. Yes they have grown quite large but 100 years ago many Catholic churches in Buffalo had 1000+ families and educated more than half of Buffalo's children. The world survived.

In this instance, The Palace is getting some sorely needed income as is the Old Post Office. This can initially be 150-250 Lockport families spending their Sunday mornings here in the city rather than driving to the no man's land of Crosspoint Business Park. People DT = good. Hopefully merchants will take note and offer reasons for people to stick aruond a little longer.

As for Chapman, hopefully his research finds bigger issues that lateral legal activity tie-ins when voting on items. If he proves unpopular he can be voted out in less than two years.

Anonymous said...

Yes, but that comment really pi$$e$ me off Rocketboy, don't be bring country music in to this!!!!!

Rocketboy said...
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wrightontime said...

I remember back in the day, a church took over a section of Main St. They held service during the week, multiple times on weekends. They parked in our lots, sent their kids to school there, even used the ymca for gym class. Yet we all managed to survive Victory Christian.

Concerned said...

Yes, I don't think this hurts anything, except those of us who like to go out to breakfast Sunday mornings after our own church. Lockport restaurants are already too busy Sunday mornings!

I do have one fear though. If this is successful for them, I hope they don't eventually take over the Palace. The Palace is currently realizing how popular first run movies can be there and I for one am hoping they do even more of them.

If the city was smart they would have had a cinema here a few years ago when they closed the mall for Walmart, they actually would have finally had an advantage over the town for once!

Now they should be encouraging the Palace for more movies!

Concerned said...

OK, just read todays Lockport urinal, I mean journal. NOW I AM AGAINST THIS.
So since the church moved in to some buildings downtown now no new alcohol establishments can be located within 200' of them. So, immediately the hockey rink won't be allowed to serve, which will hurt their chances of making some money off parents by having a small bar restaurant for the parents sitting there all day for tournaments. I aso imagined the old BOE building becoming a bar/restaurant some day when the rink takes off. And I guess forget anything nice going in the old dance studio/bus terminal behind the Palace now too.
This will also stop any new development of places in the 'entertainment district' anywhere near the old post office.

By the way, does the concert series have to get a 'new' liquor permit each year, and if so are the grandfathered in or does this church now stop them from getting one????? Did this just kill the concert series????

Oh, I see major problems with this Chapman character for the next few years!

Rocketboy said...
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Concerned said...

read the article, but it looks like the Palace would be grandfathered in if they have a liquor license already.
Victory Christian is gone from there.
It did state that VC did affect other opportunities on Main ST while it was there though.

I wonder what the definition of a church is though, can the city challenge the rooms they are renting at the post office aren't a church? Does that mean if I rent a storefront somewhere and call it a church I can stop development?
Boy, I can imagine some good bucks if I hear someone is thinking of building a bar, rent a store, call it a church, then sell my lease to the bar to get rid of me!

I wonder if Chapman had an agenda for this church when he ran? And is the concert series liquor permit OK or not?

MJ said...

I agree the law is pointless. Maybe I can reach and see prohibiting a liqour store next to a church, but even then why? Are they even open during church service hours? Sounds like more "feel good" legislation that accomplishes nothing and actually prohibits development progess. This means a high end restuarant could not locate within 200ft of a church which is just silly (to be nice).

I agree leasing a building should not constitute a church. If it does, the church should have to go through the planning/zoning borad etc to ensure it's location does not hamper other current or future ventures. Even if it is buying a bulding it should have to go through the process to ensure such if these laws are in place. It appears to be a slippery slope and there must be some case history somewhere in the state.

Slightly off topic, but I also have issues with terms like "entertainment district", "Central Business District" etc. A healthy core is where people can live, play, worship, drink, hear music, shop etc. The varying uses fill the area 24/7 making an area a destination magnet 24/7. People like to be around people and activity. "We're going downtown because we can do anything there."

As for busy restuarants on Sunday AM, the goal should be to get activity in the area the rest of the week to support additional restuarants. It should not be to supress more people in the area on a Sunday AM.


I'll update the post with the LUCJ article. The churches are lucky they don't need a liquor license for the wine or else they wouldn't be able to locate near themselves. ;)

Rocketboy said...
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Concerned said...

MJ - that was a joke about restaurants being too busy on Sundays - I know thats a good thing... Truthfully, they are very busy though it will be an issue, but a good one.

I agree with you on zoning/planning approval for a church, but Ottaviono didn't mention that in his quote where he said it would effect the hockey rink, so I'm not sure it's required or not.

Anonymous said...
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Rocketboy said...
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MJ said...

Sorry I wasn't around over the weekend. Let's keep "cult" references out of this.

Rocketboy said...

NP MJ... if I could have, I would have removed the comments myself.

goaltaylor33 said...

Any update on the concert series' liquor license?

MJ said...

see new post here:
http://lockportforum.blogspot.com/2010/02/churches-and-alcohol.html

Anonymous said...

No one bothered to check that the future hockey rink is further then 200’ and also the liquor law is written as to not be in issue at all with the existing liquor licenses and most future applications. Much to do about nothing. Journalism at its best; stir the pot for no apparent reason except to get people angry with each other. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 2/7/10: MJ did bother to check into this issue: http://lockportforum.blogspot.com/2010/02/churches-and-alcohol.html

Anonymous said...

I think EVERYONE has the wrong idea, the Palace is a Performing Arts Theatre, a Rental House, ANYONE can rent it, Its NOT a Church but a rental place the liquor law has NO effect on it, the PALACE IS NOT A CHURCH, any church can rent out the Palace just like the Chapel is doing, its that simple, you want to have an event you call up the Theatre and host one, What is wrong with this picture? The whole Idea is to have a Performing Arts place in Lockport, with Dance reitals, Concerts, Live shows, Musicals, Plays, the Palace has had Many church groups come in and do shows and Many different types of Chruches have done these things. What is the problem?

MJ said...

See the link above Anon.

I think the questions would come into play if they were to fully lease out the space at the Old Post Office.

Anonymous said...

The liquor license would only be affected if the post office was zoned as a church. Because they are only renting a portion of the building, it will still be deemed a commercial property. Unless they try to zone the building as a place of worship, the liquor licenses should be fine. As for the palace. the anonymous poster above is absolutely correct. The palace is a performing arts theatre and can be rented by anyone who comes up with the money and signs the contract. The services would be no different than a promoter renting the building for a rock concert. The chapel is also offering to do a lot of work to help out the palace. They have already started on some major technical improvements for the palace. The palace representatives would have been crazy to say no to a deal like that!

Anonymous said...

I welcome the Chapel in Lockport. I go to many special programs at their mega church. Professional programs and the love of Jesus is exhibited by very nice and welcoming people. They will be good and caring neighbors for sure!

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Hats off to the fine job Andy Chapman is doing so far. He is a successful businessman (who also happens to be Christian) who understands the value of welcoming an enterprise willing to invest in the city. The Chapel has volunteered to upgrade the Palace sound system and accoustics for the general benefit of the community. I can't believe anyone who lives in Lockport would object to assistance in fighting the blight. The government gave us nice curbs and empty buildings--I prefer the church's model of filling and upgrading the buildings.

YES!!! WE WELCOME THE CHAPEL AT LOCKPORT!

Rocketboy said...
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MJ said...

I never condsidered the sound system at the Palace a blight but I do appreciate the re-use of old buildings and bringing additional bodies DT.

The goverment's job is infrastructure, hence the pretty street and curbs. I think they did a great job with the Main St reconstruction. It's our duty to fill the buildings by opening shops or shopping at them. Of coarse government policies etc also come into play in the desire for people to open but even then the consumer speaks louder.

Anonymous said...

*Any form of building delipidation comes under the category of 'blight' and neglect.

*We can't very well fulfill our duty when we can afford neither to open businesses nor to shop at them.

I personally know several entrepreneurs who went out of business in the city of Lockport due to the high price-tag for doing business in the city.

I know several more currently struggling to remain in business in downtown Lockport who are angry with our local politicians--why not stop in and ask them their opinion on whether the city helps or hinders commerce? I think we can see the answer if we just open our eyes and look beyond the pretty curbs.

Rocketboy said...
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MJ said...

Yes the city has a higher price tag. Any older municipality does. Professional police and fire forces, other legacy costs from when they were larger, population decline, etc all make it a challenge. It's also one of the side effects of allowing towns to grow off of city's without any annexation. It's a cheap ride to growth off of someone else's back (because of the ease of transportation) and has sucked the life out of many older cities. It's also startng to suck the life out of first ring suburbs because nothing is stopping the next ring from growing at their expense.

You have already talked to them, or those trying to start a business. Feel free to list what issues they found and we can discuss them. No doubt big old gov't is hard to navigate. I'd love to start a post and discuss the problems and their possible solutions. Just drop me an e-mail.

If you pick a name it will be easier to form a dialogue.

Anonymous said...

I don't know if you're referring to me, but my blog name is taxed2death. I tried to log in to this forum with it, but it was kicked back. I'm not interested in setting up an aim account.

Business owner issues that I am aware of: number one has to be that city hall does not facilitate setting up shop; number two would probably be the city's drug problem; number three might be the petty regs with regard to things like having a sign on your building--wasn't Tom's penalized for only upgrading his with a coat of paint? Curves got around that one very creatively, thanks to it's artistic owner. (That kind of ties in to number one.) Those are just off the top of my head--doesn't anyone do business in the city? These people talk to anyone willng to listen and they all have similar stories...well, other than Mr. Ulrich, that is.

Rocketboy said...
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Rocketboy said...
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MJ said...

If you're account is google based it should be fine. You may get an error but just hit "post comment" again and it should go through fine.

I think most anywhere around here you will find issues with dealing with gov't. That should not be an excuse. It is an opportunity though for some municipality to step up, streamline the process, and have a single point of initial contact for interested businesses.

I would not want to go car shopping and have to research incentives etc through 5-8 different places. You walk in and everything is laid out for you. It should be the same way with wanting to set up a business in the city. If it were a private business struggling for survival it pry would be that way by now.

As RB mentioned the sign ordinace has been updated. Though to what I am not quite sure. The few signs that went up during the 1st revision were rather nice looking. After seeing Aaron's and MarJon go up it seems like V2 had gotten us nowhere. The town also has sign ordinances to work around.

Thank you for commenting.

Rocketboy said...
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Anonymous said...

As being a person who has been a part of the launch team for The Chapel coming into meaning I am one of the many volunteers I work in the children's ministry for them. And being someone who has lived in Lockport for 27 years what the Chapel is doing is amazing. Reaching out to the community and helping in many ways reaching out to those who don't have a place to call home as far as a place of worship. This is so exciting to see. And after witnessing what I did last week on Easter during the launch what God did was amazing! 486 people packed into the palace and 7 people making decisions for Christ. That is what we are there for and God is not done there yet. I cannot wait to see what God does next but just now we aren't leaving anytime soon. And as far as VCC goes their school is located in the building you are talking about and they are another great place where the truth of God is spoking!! Pastor Ron is amazing from there great guy who loves the Lord.

Anonymous said...

In God we put all things

Rocketboy said...
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Anonymous said...

Hi guys,

The Chapel has been three years, I'd be interested in knowing what you think of The Chapel at Lockport now? Have you seen any positive impact? The new community garden certainly looks promising and the investment into The Palace also seems all positive.

Any updated thoughts/concerns?

ABC123 said...

Anybody that believes in a man made story from 2000 years ago when there is no physical proof that the stuff ever existed needs their head examined.

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