Smith Recordings

Posted by MJ

The Buffalo News and the LUSJ both reported on Jack Smiths alleged recordings of council executive sessions.

Aldermen were furious Friday after one of their colleagues revealed that he has been secretly recording closed-door Council sessions for more than a year

Second Ward Alderman Jack L. Smith Jr., a Democratic mayoral candidate, made the disclosure during a closed session Wednesday, according to some of his colleagues....
 Supposedly legal but revealing you are recording something is always the gentlemen thing to do. Wonder how all this play out in the Hoffman unlawful termination case?


Jim said...

Bottom line is, he wasn't doing anything illegal. As for being "Gentlemenly", perhaps he could have told them. My opinion is that the Mayor and Council have never had any respect for Smith or even Chapman for that matter. Maybe he did it for note taking, maybe he did it to protect his butt. There have been too many occasions where someone on this board leaked out executive session info to the public. If you're gonna find fault with this situation, I guess the other should be equally at fault. The fact that he told the Council (in an EXECUTIVE SESSION) that he recorded their meetings for accurate notes and then they blabbed it to the public shows their lack of respect for the executive session and keeping things confidential. They just opened a whole can of worms...

hitler said...

illegal, no
cowardly, maybe
the appearance of wrongdoing, yes
your attempt to spin this, pathetic

as this was not city related, there's no need for it to be confidential "so what if he said he killed a man, he said it in an "EXECUTIVE SESSION", nobody should have said anything!"

Anonymous said...

Glenn/Hitler..you are a jack-ass

Anonymous said...

-It has not been determined that it is definitely legal to record an 'executive session' covertly, or if these recordings are now subject to FOIL laws. This might be a major problem for the city, especially with all the lawsuits Tucker has caused.
-Don't believe everything you hear from that local FOIL expert, he has been proven wrong a number of times. Ironically one of them was when the BOE was able to use executive session due to threatened litigation. e said that was illegal, thestate said it was legal. Ironically, t he threatened litigation was from Smith's wife!
-I don't like Tucker due to his ego and allowing the city to face so many lawsuits, but no matter how big a fan of Smith you are you can't defend him SECRETLY taping these meetings. If he thought what he was doing was ethical he would have had the recorder in sight, not hidden away.
He just threw away his political career for being stupid.

hitler said...

from what i've gathered, it is totally legal as per the state supreme court, but it does not make it any dumber of an idea

although it cannot be foild, it could be subpoenaed

if you think i'm a jack-ass, i'm positive i would be totally cool with it. i don't crave your approval.

Moe said...

OK...then go turn yourself into the police for speeding last week down Pine Street...that's about as logical as your argument..

Guess what... "secrets" aren't against the law.

Why don't we just see what the voters say..
I say it make him politically STRONGER not weaker.

I think Smith has the entire Common Council scrambling trying to remember what they may have said, or should not have said during those sessions.


I think it's pretty damn funny...

Anonymous said...

Ummm..... I now have totally disrespect for anything you would say anon. 10:18 because I know for a fact who "threatened" a lawsuit against the Board of Ed and it never was Smith's wife.

GI Joe said...

well Hitler is 1/2 right again!

My info is that you can FOIL the Executive Session "minutes" or transcripts.
Why not? John Ottaviano made the statement that the content is the property of the "City of Lockport".

I believe they can be FOIL'd.

Anonymous said...

Secrets aren't against the law, but an official 'executive session' is not considered a 'secret'. It's a legal entity with special rules.

How can anybody defend such a cowardly underhanded action and think Smith comes out of it stronger?

One way you will know, wait to see how many meaningful campaign donations he gets.

GI Joe said...

Oh Anonymous 11:42...what "lies" are you referring to??

Just state your opinion and move on..let the reader decide what is true and what isn't.

No one needs for you to be THE guardian of the truth...

Anonymous said...

Joe, a lie is anything that comes out of you! just give us facts!

Anonymous said...

I'll bet you Tucker gets one of these on order this week-


It's an audio jammer which prevents recordings!

Wish Smith would come on here and defend his actions - oh and tell us how much his ceo at HV made last year!!! but thats a secret, shhhhh. I wonder how much Smith will make as the local host of HV?

hitler said...

joe i clearly stated that that's the information that i was able to dig never once did i claim that i was a lawyer or a judge who knew. you then act as if i know for sure followed up by "I believe they can be FOIL'd." i was also talking about the secret recordings and not specifically about the executive session

here is the actual law


so it appears that if records are being kept in these meetings they could be foil'd but anything regarding to for instance personnel issues would still be kept hidden away

if you are going to say that i am wrong "again" first you have to be able to judge if i am making a statement of fact. it should be clear even with out a direct disclaimer that i was not. second countering with information that you "believe" is correct is no more a statement of fact then what i posted nor were you even correct on identifing what i was posting about

on the positive side, you didn't say i was spreading lies again, so you do get a gold star for today

Anonymous said...

hitler are you nuts trying to argue with Joe? No matter how many facts you present his answer will be 'lies!'
Don't even try.

Your best bet is every time he posts something post back he is lying.

MJ said...

The best bet is to stop the infighting before I have to waste time deleting comments. Feel free to debate information with information. Drift to far away from that and I'll need to clean up the mess.

Moe said...

Heard Mike Pillot today on "Niagara Talking".

Sounds like a nice man, but I don't think he's even qualified to be the Mayor of "Munchkin Land".

MJ said...

cleaned up comments following my last comment for adding nothing to the topic - bickering only.

Nastyman said...

If any of the Smith supporters had ever been in an Executive Session they would know what is and what is not acceptable behavior. Every municipality and governmental entity has these things and NONE of them are surreptitiously recorded - and certainly not by an official who never says a darn thing (except when he wants to bash somebody-which he does-I'm quite sure that Smith's comments have been wiped.)
I am aware that he has done this. I am further aware that he made similar comments in a meeting of the Committee of the Whole. I KNOW this. His comments were made to the Press months ago. I KNOW this, too.
His only claim to "fame" is that he voted "Nay" more often than Mr. Chapman. That's not praise.
Why did he get kicked out of North Tonawanda? Why did he buy a house in a BAD part of town? It was bad when he bought it. What, exactly, is his "real job?" Who IS this guy?
Who wants to bet that his recording device was provided by another Council member who does security schemes for very large corporations, etc. Like airports. That person certainly has access to recording material that you and I would have to spend a month's salary on.
A "snake in the grass" is WAY too complimentary.

GI Joe said...

You give yourself too much credit...you're not as Nasty as you think you are. I'd say you were kinda of a little wimpy name caller...

So you must be in Executive Sessions all the time because you've come here as an expert..a reliable source...right?..and let's see you're on this Blog repeating what you heard during Executive Sessions? Isn't that against the rules? You know.... the rules you claim you know so much about....ya the customary "governmental Municipal thing" you mumbled about in your soliloquy...remember?

And then the ..piste De Resistance
you're misguided enough to get into an ethics contest about Smith thinking that Mike Tucker will be the winner? Where have you been? LMAO and I bet you don't wash your hands after using the Men's Room either!

You start questioning why someone left their old neighborhood? If they really have a "real" job, and why they chose to live where they live?

This is just the beginning of how low you guys are prepared to go.

Shameful.......Absolutely Shameful

Anonymous said...

what job? with HV?

Anonymous said...

All I know is that this is just further proof of how horribly corrupt Lockport is and how inept every single candidate (including the esteemed Tucker) is. We are doomed.

Nastyman said...

Joe your attack shows you don't have a clue. Who said I was ever in a Lkpt Exec Session? Never. I HAVE been in many others.
I'd like to know what job he has with Housing Visions and or what job he's gonna get when they come. Clear conflict of interest.
Get out Joe while you can. Its gonna get worse for the Smiths.

Anonymous said...

Smith is the director of Housing Visions’ local affiliate, Lockport Neighborhood Revitalization Inc. I agree total conflict of interest when he voted to approve the project with all the city tax breaks they received.
If HV is getting a $940,000 profit on the project I am sure the local group will get a piece of that.
And still trying to get someone to tell us how much the director of Hv makes a year.

GI Joe said...

"There you go again" I have plenty of clues.

your explanation contained details about Smith's voting record during ES..or did I Imagine that?

I don't know of any "Job". If you don't know about a job with HV, then it's inappropriate for you to intimate that there is one.

Get out? I'm not IN anything. I just don't like the rhetoric and accusations that are flying around. If we're going to discuss the recording of the meeting then do it...all the other BS is just that..... unsubstantiated accusations, and mud slinging. Pure bull....

Anonymous said...

Moe are you also Joe? I love it when facts get listed but you say they are lies because they don't correspond to your believes.
Here's a link to the article where it states the fact he is a director -
If you need help figuring out how to do searches to confirm facts there are computer classes at the library.
I am not going to look it up for you but HV's own documents show their $940,000 profit plus that they are going to only pay $13,000 taxes (per year) for 15 years. Smith was instrumental is getting this gift for HV, with Tuckers approval.

GI Joe said...

what does "correspond to my believes" mean.?
Is that English?

Just so you know the "spot" doesn't replicate while you make an entry. I can read your crap or I can type my facts..the choice is obvious. And what does HV have to do with the "recordings" that were made.

Hard for you to stay on topic? go take your medication.

Anonymous said...

Wow, re-read your last post, it makes absolutely no sense.
Once again you are ignoring posted facts (with references to the newspaper articles) that Smith is a director of HV's local entity.
It relates to Smith and the recordings as it shows his character, that he pushed a project he has a clear conflict of interest with.

Nastyman said...

Did Jack file his mandated financial/ethics form by, I think, March 15th? Did he file it when it was required to be filed? Is there any reference to Housing Visions? Is there any reference to HV with regard to Louisa? It all has to be disclosed - even Louisa - and if he didn't do it that, in and of itself, he'll be sanctioned and maybe have committed a crime. That's what it saays in the County law. Tucker might have a bundle of skeletons, but at least he's not ratting out his council.

MJ said...

I tried to clean up this mess. Please don't force me to pre-approve all comments. It's a waste of time for me.

Jack Smith does not work "for" Hosing Visions. A second Not-for-Profit was created to sponsor the project here in Lockport. I tired to look back quick, I know there is more detail in an older article but here is what I found quick:

"The name on the deeds would be Lockport Canal Homes, created for that purpose. Lockport Neighborhood Revitalization, another not-for-profit led by Alderman Jack L. Smith Jr., is the project sponsor and would see a “nominal share” of any profits, Smith said."

from http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/niagara-county/article28653.ece

Here is the original article on the HV project for background


MJ said...

HV is known as is the structure of the set up. It's one thing to ask for clarification on an item (such as the sponsor not-for-profit) but it's another to attack with it and make it seem like it's a shady endeavor.

Don't call Jack out about ethics and then negatively spin things about him (or any other candidate). I'll delete them moving forward. I'm leaving the above as an example.

Anonymous said...

Let's get it out in the open then, how much of a 'nominal share of the profits' will this non-profit group share in? I truly think it is unethical and a conflict of interest for him to be the director of it while he votes to approve all the breaks they are getting.
And also why do they hide how much the director of HV makes a year?

Moe said...

I was hoping it wouldn't come to this..but the constant beat-down of Smith with innuendo and false accusations is going to demand a response from a lot of people.

Do you Tucker troglodytes really wanna go there?

GI Joe God Bless America said...

Anonymous 8:27

Apparently no one here has the answers to your rhetorical, monotonous questions about HV. ..so swing over to Google, get the phone number for Housing Visions and ask them yourself.

Anonymous said...

Moe/Joe (I don't know why you use 2 names),
Short answer, yes. This is called follow the money. When money doesn't make any sense (i.e. $9M for 9 houses), and a supposed non-profit is collecting $940,000 profit, and a local politician is the local director and who didn't recluse himself from votes benefiting his organization - the public should demand more.
This is a matter of Smith's ethics.
But again, I blame Tucker just as much for approving and pushing the project. And Ottaviano should have stepped in with Smith's conflict of interest.

Anonymous said...

MJ - you always said the profit that HV gets is for their office and behind the scenes expenses. What expenses will this local group have that they need a 'nominal share of the profits'?

Anonymous said...

What's wrong Tucker supporters?

Not so interested in arguing the merits of the super secret recordings anymore?

The law and facts are with the other team..

Sorry...you lose.

hitler said that there is no god and then said...

anon has a rather good question that the anti-tucker crowd would rather dodge, parry, and thrust as opposed to actually looking at the question being asked

the difference between the anti-tucker group and everyone else, is that the anti-tucker group hates the man. everyone else just doesn't like what someone may (or may not) have done

not a very godly attitude, what ever happened to love the sinner, but hate the sin?

when there's a group of people who think that one person cannot do wrong, i question the motives of the group and the individual person

Moe said...

The city is filled with conflicts of interest they're called Standard Operating Procedures in Lockport.

But your obsession with HV is scary...'Follow the money...very original.

Please...yes follow ALL of the money let's start with a good Ole forensic audit of the GLDC by the State of New York. Then let's see where all of the Concert Series money goes, and why City employees do set-up and clean up when it's the promoters responsibility. Then let's look at what relatives we have on the city payroll.then lets find out what connections all of these consulting firms have with any members of the Common Council and if there are any improprieties involved, then let's look at why city employees that are landlords don't have to abide by the law like the rest of us, and why a city employee who lived on South Street was allowed to let his house sit and rot but was never fined or pulled into Housing Court.

And I'm just getting warmed up...stay tuned

Nastyman said...

This is getting boring.
The contract for the concert series has been questioned for years. I don't like it eithe. What does that have to do with Smiths secret tapes?
Thank you for the links - shows that Smith does have an interest, of some type, in the Lockport spin-off of Housing Visions - and HAS had which any moron knows should have disqualified him from voting on the issue.
Not only the Mayor has filed Bankruptcy-which he's very open about-others have as well.
I agree with hitler, again, frighteningly, that Smiths peoplr hate the man. They think Smiths above petty politics and rode in on a white horse to save us from ourselves. They couldn't be more wrong. Tucker has his gfaults-lots of them-but whats that got to do with this taping issue? NOTHING PEOPLE!!
At the least Smith is not a gentleman and has a ludicrous view of how people on any board or comision or council should work together for the common good. The good of the city and its taxpayers. At worst he's been sitting silent for a year and a half-except for HV-recording his colleages without their knowledge in hopes that he ca use what they said at election time. Thats pitiful. He obviously realizes he can't win without trying ro destroy his fellow council members and his opponent to get a chance to sit at the adult table.

Anonymous said...

Good idea Moe! I would love to see the trail there. It goes deep... You only touched the surface.

MJ said...

I believe they are called SOPs in almost any human ran organization.

MJ said...

Please cut out the mob mentality items such as insinuating someone is an employee of someone, hates someone else, are the same as another commenter etc. It's monotonous, boring and irrelevant. I'll be cleaning them up without warning.

MJ said...

Last chance before I disable commenting for a bit, require logging in, etc. I'm growing tired of cleaning up the idiotic banter. If you can't debate some points at above a 2nd grade level please spare me the effort of having to clean it up. For now I will just delete up to my last comment because I'm growing tired of trying find the 10% relative information.

There was a time when even Smith himself participated a bit here, responding to criticism etc. Go back an look it up. If you want to see why some thoughtful posters have given up here feel free to look back at your own comments.

hitler said...

please do shut it down, when you delete comments it just allows the instigators pretend to be the victim

GI Joe God Bless America said...

Anonymous...your brother "Anonymous" brings up a good point. Let's hear some facts from you.

Why are city employees doing set-up and clean-up of the concert area when it's the promoters responsibility? Why are tax payers giving the promoter more money by allowing city paid workers to do the work? Aren't we paying enough?

Did the Mayor authorize it? Did the Council Approve it?

hitler said...

anon,as im sure you did not notice, there's already a post regarding the contract


perhaps your questions would be better asked there as opposed to a post regarding smith's recordings

GI Joe God Bless America said...

Anon good post....but while we're making accusations about corruption..let's make sure we include the Mayors rule breaking disclosure to the press about what transpired during the Executive Session.

GI Joe God Bless America said...


MJ...how much longer are you going to tolerate this kind of personal attacks and profanity?

Back on the topic..the Administration looked pathetic at the council meeting. They don't know the details of their own programs. Then the pay some "women" to come to the podium and show just how stupid she is when she make s statement about the legalities of recording a closed session of the Common Council..what a joke.

Anonymous said...

Jack Smith is a hard working honest man and would make a great Mayor

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 4:02 there are still a lot of unanswered
questions about Hoffman, his firing,if Allen was the right choice. Looks like a series of mistakes from the Captian's Chair over at city hall.

Anonymous said...

No kidding, Smith hasn't been in office long enough to owe everyone. Keep Smith an addledperson for another term, so that way he'll rack up a long list of his own special favors to hand out.

hitler said...

hello the above anoni, just wanted to let you know that there's already a thread about smith running, and this is a post about smith's secret recordings

you may find more information about smith's run for office over there


Anonymous said...

Hitler seems to always want people to go to old threads. Seems like he wants to change the subject or divert comments about Tuck's poor judgement.

I wonder why he woud do that? It might be cause he is trying to help the moderator of the blog-or he just might want to end any more discussion about Tuck being owned by certain influential people. What do you think?

Anonymous said...

anom/joe/moe - I'm not sure why he sends people away - maybe to try and keep threads on track? Makes sense.

Anonymous said...

Or maybe he is bought and paid for by the tucker crew?

GI Joe God Bless America said...

Anonymous.anon/Joe Moe that wasn't me

You'll know it's me when I post. I put my name on my work..not like you ...you wuss

Anonymous said...

You are such a liar it really is funny. You hae been posting under anom a lot lately, quit the lying!!!

GI Joe God Bless America said...

That's funny...there has been no bickering or name calling until you started it again...asshole

GI Joe God Bless America said...

I think you're obsessed with me...following me around the site..trying to figure out which anonymous posts are mine. I think you're a blog stalker, or maybe just gay.

Either way..you're an asshole.

anom said...

There you again again. First you call me a wuss but say there isn't any namecalling hgoing on.
Then of course you aren't smart enough to make one post, you have to do two.

You are mental!!!

GI Joe God Bless America said...

now you're just anon..

is that wussy for anonymous?

You initiated it you piece of crap scum bag.
Things we're quiet for awhile... you trouble making simpleton.

People see comments like yours and they know you're a water boy for the Boss and I don't mean Springsteen.

You're a coward... plain and simple. and a stupid one to boot.

Patti said...

C'mon you guys - there are two posts for a reason.
Instead of callling people names, why don't you see where your comment should go and get on with it.

GI Joe God Bless America said...

Multiple posts means I have multiple thoughts..not like you Simple Simon.

With an IQ of 30, don't you find it hard to send even one post?

I have plenty more...just keep firing back...

GI Joe God Bless America said...

Like I said Patti..I've been quiet for a few days until Pat Schrader got back on his computer.

He starts making it personal again. Unfortunately the moderator has blinders lately, and allows this scuz to post "Asshole" the other day and didn't do anything about it. I'm pissed but I'm going to back off.

Anon said...

and re-read the posts, who started name calling?

and I am really sorry that you have multiple thoughts going on in your head...do you hear alot of voices there?

I guess other people with mutiple thoughts are able to annunciate them in one post, I can understand your problem though.

Please, get the help you need!!!

Jim said...

I think you meant communicate. Annunciate and communicate are two different definitions. I'm getting tired of seeing all this nonsense anyhow...this blog is becoming more and more like all the others..worthless.

Patti said...

@Joe - good idea. You CAN'T win. Nothing will stop him when he's on a roll.
For the record - my I.Q. is WAY above 30. So what?
I love (not) how he shrieks at everyone while calling them every name in the book. I am offended by "asshole," although it is one of my favorite words when speaking directly to someone and then, always about someone else.
"Simple Simon?" Self explanatory.

And all this from a guy who doesn't even know how to spell enunciate. Sad, really...

Patti said...


There are laws against that crap,

Anonymous said...

Patti quit defending him, be honest, look at the posts and see who started the childish name calling - check the 'wuss' post. I am convinced he needs some mental help, he won't acknowledge anyone elses ideas, he ignores peoples facts and just says post facts and he can't ever make his point known in one post. Everything has been civil here and he most have gotten bored.

By the way - an·nun·ci·ate
   /əˈnʌnsiˌeɪt/ Show Spelled[uh-nuhn-see-eyt] Show IPA
–verb (used with object), -at·ed, -at·ing.
to announce

"to announce" - I believe I used it in the right way.

Enunciate looks like it has a similar secondary definition, it's first def is to pronounce correctly, but the second def is to proclaim something.

GI Joe God Bless America said...

I'm sorry..did you say something?

Anonymous said...

joe - you definitely need help

GI Joe God Bless America said...

It's a GI Joe "Double Play!"

Notice how riled up the Anti Smith clan is getting..sounds like they're worried about the election. Here comes Phyllis Tuckerites!

Just for the record Anon..you came on with your Joe/Moe anon crap because you're incapable of just posting your opinion..and................ I heard you have really bad breath.

Anonymous said...

joe - you definitely need help

GI Joe God Bless America said...

lol..have a great Saturday!

Patti said...

Okay re: enunciate. You used the "a" word correctly (IMHO).
I really don't want to take the time to go back and see who fired the first salvo. Bottom line for me is let's deal with the issue. BOTH of you have engaged in a tit for tat quarrel. I agree that the constant comments (Constant Comment tea? - love it!) are a waste of space, energy & time. Makes it more difficult to follow what's going on. I think it also discourages those who might have a valid point from joining in. I'm with you all the way on that.
As you are intimately aware - I've been at the receiving end of of scurrilous attacks in the past. I REALLY don't want that to happen again. You've hopefully noticed that I've been a heck of a lot nicer these days. I learned my lesson.

Patti said...

I forgot some stuff. I'm not deliberately trying to tie up the thread,
IMO - Jack Smith's behavior with the "tapes" was peculiar. Why? The "I did it for note taking purposes" is something he, or Luisa, came up with in a hurry to excuse his bad behavior. I've handled a lot of political shenanigans in the County and have sat in many Executive Sessions. Never have I seen anything like this - and I've dealt with everyone and every outfit from the Villellas, Francis, Modern, to Love Canal, to North Tonawanda'a politics as usual, John Gross, etc. blah blah, blah.
So - when someone comes out and blasts me for beating up on Jack - I have the experience to know that this behavior is, at the least, egregious. Toss in his apparent connection with Housing Visions, from which he may get a job administrating the project = $$, he should never have voted on HV EVER! It's unethical and I don't want someone who will do something like this as Mayor. The rumor mill has already pinned him with his being on its payroll already. Can't prove this and won't bother finding out. It's a rumor.
Now when all the Tucker haters start beating up on him - consider that a large, yet short, woman in a Jack Smith for Mayor t-shirt, accosted me in the lobby after the meeting. I couldn't leave the building and I was about to pass out. Nice people. I WILL see her again and I won't be in the middle of a health "crisis."
Yes - I am the "women" who spoke at the meeting. (I am heterosexual as if it matters), Nobody is paying me anything and what I do for the City I do because I WANT to do it.

I'm rather smart-not stupid and I do know the legalities involved because I'm a lawyer. I was a Prosecutor and Chief of the White Collar Crime "bureau." That means I got all the naughty politicians and all "touchy" matters to boot.
You might want to read Bob Freeman's Opinion re: what you can and cannot do in Executive Session. It's as solid as Black Letter Law.

Patti said...


Anonymous said...

I'm sure you're only attempting to be nice when you use your real name. We now have so much more respect for you since you've disclosed to us that you're an attorney. Mr. Ottaviano is an attorney and apparently he didn't do such a good job on the Hoffman legality issue or the proposed garbage law... and as far as a woman "accosting you" in the lobbey- it sounds to me like you probably got the tongue lashing you deserved.

GI Joe God Bless America said...


Jim said...

Sorry about the definition mix up. I can admit when I'm wrong.
Patti I think I may know who you are now. I recall reading posts by you on the Buffalo News Blog a while back. If memory serves me correctly. You were very vicious and had much negativity toward Tucker, his administration and the George Maziarz crew. What made you change all of a sudden?

GI Joe God Bless America said...

Look..even if Christ returned and wanted to be Mayor someone would accuse him of " secretly listen in on our conversations."

If you folks are looking for the neat and clean candidate, stop wasting your time, because THAT candidate doesn't exist anywhere.

Not on this planet....But let's just say there are a few of those folks...why the hell would they want to get into politics and subject themselves to a constant beating?

Those people generally same..No thanks, it's not worth it.

GI TYPO Joe said...

sorry for the typo's...


hitler said...

it seems to me that there's a specific element that always wants to draw the conversation away from smith when negative things are being discussed, as illustrated above

Patti said...

Noticed that, did you?
I now have so much more respect for them, as well. What perplexes me is they aren't willing to give us their real names yet they have no problem with beating up on me.
Why won't anyone answer the questions about Jack Smith? Instead they automatically divert to beating me up. Whatever. If I were concerned about what anonymous people think I'd have been buried years ago.
I'm not using my real name to be nice. I'm using it because I hope it shows that I am giving my personal opinion which I am willing to stand by.
Your opinion of Mr. Ottaviano has nothing to do with me.
As to the definition mix up - I was admitting that I was wrong in "correcting" you. I, too, admit when I make a mistake. I haven't a clue how you turned that around to make it seem as if I was critical of whoever you are.
My opinions of many people have changed - that's my prerogative.
The large woman in the lobby was rude and her behavior indefensible - especially as I was obviously in distress. She kept blocking me from leaving which made it worse. What's HER name? She didn't hurt my feelings - she made a bad situation worse & I can't afford that. She clearly has no compassion for anyone who doesn't agree with her position in a stupid election. I thought all these folks were supposed to be nice and Christ like. Not her.
I do have the ability to be vicious. I also have the ability to admit when I'm wrong. I WAS wrong. I've since taken to investigating things much more thoroughly before shooting my mouth off. Try it - you might learn something.

Anonymous said...

It seems to me that Mr. Hitler never talks about the topic. He always questions the motives of others, is concerned about content, but is mostly concerned with "how" bloggers respond.

I don't see much from Hitler in the way of substance. He has a curiosity about everything but the topic, and has yet to offer solutions.

GI Joe God Bless America said...

Hitler..you obviously don't like Jack Smith..Find the appropriate page and post some good things about your favorite candidate and let us read them. You just seem to like to take the role of the sarcastic commentator, kind of a referee of sorts. We have a blog administrator already.

If Smith's not the choice, then who is? Be specif.
Don't dodge the inquiry with another question. It's time for you to do what you ask of everyone else.We know you won't shut up, but it past time for you to put up.

Charlie Manson a Friend of Hitler's said...

Patti...I think the secret to a happy life in Lockport is to ...Ignore 1/2 of the people, and don't pay attention to the other half.

hitler said...

patti, as honorable as your intents may be, and as much as you may discuss the specific topic, unless both sides of a conversation uses the same rules which include honest conversations about the issue at hand, you'll always end up getting the short end of the stick.

it's best just to let the frothing dogs run around by themselves and realize that there are more important things to worry about in this world

but back on topic, one of the things that i had brought up earlier that was removed in the giant sweep, was that i don't buy smith's 'excuse'. not only could he not answer the direct question, but he also had an excuse as to why he would have done it, if he had. in my eyes, you don't have an excuse for something that you don't do. in addition, the excuse was a bit dishonest, as someone recording a college lecture would have their recording device out in the open, in the quest to get the best recording.

if he was going to record them for his own personal notes, there should have been no need to be elusive about the ordeal.

GI Joe God Bless America said...

Hitler..ya thanks..it unfortunate for the readers that you won't play fair.

Give us something about your "man". That's not unfair to ask is it?. All you do is criticize Smith, but even when you're asked nicely, you come up empty handed. You asked the same of the Smith supporters, now we ask it of you.

Tell us something great about your candidate and what he/she has done. leave the page (obviously) to do it because it is not part of this discussion..but PLEASE tell us..(crickets)

Anonymous said...

Bottom Line on the "recordings"

If someone on the Councils' feeling were hurt, we all feel bad for them.

Legally? a moot point.

The big question is: what are they hiding?

It's the citizens council meeting. We have a right to the content. They call unnecessary executive sessions all of the time so they can stay "off the record"

And most importantly, why was Mayor Tucker talking to the press about the content of the Executive Session? To embarrass Smith his likely opponent in the upcoming election, that's why.

Smith never released anything to the media or public, and never indicated that he intended to.

On the other hand Mayor Tucker couldn't move fast enough to violate the public trust...again.

Anonymous said...

Yeah what has Tucker done that helped the entire city and not just his key connections? We are waiting to hear

Anonymous said...

The entire issue is do you want to go from one mayor you don't trust to another one with a severe ethics issue? It's simple, if what he did recording wasn't something he knew was wrong to do he wouldn't have hid the recorder.

Also, he needs to come clean how much he is going to make from HV, and how much has he made so far.

Anonymous said...

Ha! It appears as always there's a double standard at City Hall. How about a City Council, City Attorney, and Mayor who you cannot trust? The constant leaking of information from closed session meetings- which apparently is privileged information should be far more worse. Just because it's don "anonymously" we're supposed to accept it-now that's the crime.

Anonymous said...

I had the opportunity to talk to people about happenings the other morning at a local coffee shop and it appeared to me that the general concensus is people are sick and tired of backroom deals, lies and our current administration doing what they wish rather than what we want. I think we will definitely be seeing a change this fall.

Anonymous said...

2:34 - Read what I wrote, do you want to go from o;ne mayor you don't trust to another one that you won't be able to? They both have ethics problems and it's too bad they are the favorites to run against each other.

What about Smith's HV connections though?

Patti said...

WOW! What happened to my well thought out, response to those who were taking me to task???
Was it too wordy, too long, what, exactly? I thought you were above that. I was responding, with FACTS, to all of those who have been attacking me, personally.
I guess I just wasted a lot of time setting out my experience in these matters which might be accepted by the beater-uppers.

Let me know if there's a blanket ban on anti-Smith stuff, would you? I'd appreciate it so I don't waste MORE time setting forth why these people should pay attention to what I have to say.
I thought this blog was above that. Not if you don't publish that last post. At minimum - please tell me what rule I've broken - I can't think of any.
ALL I can think of, which you might think justifies your action, is you're afraid of my experience and what I say based on that experience. As the top Prosecutor to deal with crap like this I DO know what I'm talking about and am not about to tell lies.

Anonymous said...

No, there is no "anti Smith ban"

There is a BS Ban

Anonymous said...

Here are a number of good reasons to vote for Jack Smith.

A man that is interested in listening to what all of the people have to say about issues, not just a small group of political buddies, or contributors.

You get a man who rolls up his sleeves everyday and knows what an honest days work is all about. Jack's not afraid to get his hands dirty.

He believes that the current system of property assessment needs to be reviewed.There still seems to be some inequity built into the system that must be changed.

Jack's a current office holder who is not beholden to the "Political Machine" that dictates from Albany and Newfane.Jack doesn't need to rub elbows with the local party favorites in order to take care of business.

Smith understands that taxes are out of control and that the burden of assessment and taxation has been unfair.He understands that it will take discipline and hard work to deal with this issue, and he's prepared to do what needs to be done to change the system for the betterment of all.

Jack is someone who understands and has worked at the grass roots level to try and rebuild his neighborhood, and is able to project that same "worst First" philosophy to the rest of the City's housing, crime, and drug dealing problems.

He is a person who recognizes that the infrastructure of this city has reached the "Fail Safe" point. Jack will present an action plan designed to start dealing with this huge problem as a WORST FIRST" priority. Today,our City has no plan.

Candidate Smith believes that "private" meetings aren't the best way to conduct the cities business. He's an advocate for open government, something we have never had, and something we desperately need.

He understands that one person can't make all of the important decisions for the City. He believes that the current approach that resembles a dictatorship is harmful to the progress of the city. Smith believes that the Common Council is like a "Board of Directors", not like a "King and his Court". A perfect example is the NEW trash collection program. He believes major changes require a public referendum to guarantee that every citizen is heard.

He believes there is a vast untapped pool of talent willing to help make the city better. That talent and their ideas have been ignored in the past, because of pettiness and political differences. He will welcome diverse ideas and opinions. If your idea is the best idea, Jack is not afraid to use your idea.

He understands how to prioritize problems and deal with our biggest challenges first.He realizes that the Mayor's office is a Management position and the person who occupies the office is more than a "ribbon cutter", he/she is a business manager.Being a manager includes making the right personnel decisions that are in the best interest of the city, not to settle grudges, or resolve personal in-fighting.

Best of all he is capable of putting politics aside,and recognizes that Lockport can't survive by kicking the can down the road. Lockport not only needs a change in leadership, it needs an attitude adjustment. He believes that it will take strong leadership to get our ship sailing in the right direction. He believes that a laser-sharp focus on our most serious problems is key. Most important he believes in the city and it's people, and believes that we can accomplish what ever we set out to do if we work together.
Jack Smith represents the future. we have to stop holding on to the past. He can move us forward.

GI Joe God Bless America said...

Patti..the person who wrote' The devil we know is......." proverb, didn't know either of our two guy's...if he did I wonder if he'd say it?

I think Jack SMith will speak up and I think he will have a lot to say very soon..." In due time my little pretty..all in due time".

GI Joe God Bless America said...

It's a GI Joe "Double Post!

If any of you are waiting for any candidate to respond right here, on this blog, you're going to get old waiting. No candidate in his/her right mind would post on this blog.

If you want answers let's call for some debates. I think Smith and Pillot are going to be on Donna P's show next week. Tucker won't debate he's the incumbent, why should he? Phyllis Green will debate anyone anytime..just ask her.

But I think if you can pin these guys down and ask them a series of questions and really listen to the answers, the choice would be easier.

MJ said...

"WOW! What happened to my well thought out, response to those who were taking me to task???
Was it too wordy, too long, what, exactly? I thought you were above that."

I don't recall which one you were referring too but you must have veered off coarse somewhere. Either that or I went with my threat to batch delete. I only have to much time to dedicate to this. Changes may be coming.

To all the curious: I do not delete on topic posts that are on topic and devoid of name calling etc. Comment like an adult and the continued existence of your comments is not in jeopardy.

Anonymous said...

What did all of the retired people do while MJ was gone? I caught one idiot calling Donna Piezella's show and talking about how the recording were against the law.

" my momma told me...stupid is as stupid does".

How did so many stupid people end up in one small city?

GI Joe said...

MJ.....Take a deep breath and count to 10

Pete said...

Unbeliievable... but pretty darn funny!

MJ said...

I tried for two weeks ;)

Pol said...

well, expecting good discussion on piezella's show is like expecting good food in a dumpster. how many times are we going to hear that racist complain that the Mexicans are taking over for the "one true race"?

Patti said...

Glad your back, MJ!
To the anonymii who think we're all retired farmers - think again. In fact, retired farmers are in pretty good shape as long as obama isn't re-elected.
I still think it's a bit frightening to find so many people defending Smith's secret recordings. Maybe they're only following the teensy weensy radio station's call-in talk show hostess - that eliminates about 10 people. I listen when I'm in the car and have nothing better to do. That's rare.
Maybe they're "true believers?" Doubt it - TRUE believers don't do the type of things they and their messiah do - like secretly tape record private meetings.
That's so wrong on so many levels. If Smith is elected it will be the end of this place - he'll see to it - as soon as he gets his pension, health care for life, kicks out the concert promoter, boycotts every business that even hints at being immoral and puts his Storm Troopers on the streets to ensure his vision for Lockport (which is what?) is being complied with.
I find that scary.
Okay-beat up on me now and tell me how misguided I am. Please don't hurt me physically when you do this.

MJ said...

That comment is just as fear-mongering and over exaggerated as anything else that has been posted.

I don't understand what is so hard about listing some facts with out the theatrics meant to rile everyone up. Please post some actual stances and facts about the person you want to refer to.

I.E Smith is against the concert because the cost to much, are too loud, etc. Or Smith has stated he is against such and such business because, etc. I feel he is wrong because of x,y,z.

I don't see how any one here is supposed to have a worthwhile conversation about candidates, what they have done, or desire to do.

There is probably a seed size of valuable knowledge in this 107 comment pile of manure but I'm not even sure where to begin to try to find it.

Anyone else is welcome to start a blog where everyone can call everyone names, spread rumors, make internet threats, talk about worthless stuff that had nothing to do about moving this city forward, etc. I'd rather have two commenters here talking about something tangible instead of a crammed hen house interested in trash talking the other candidate/person in a junior high school popularity contest.

Let me know when someone had put forth the effort to create it. I'll direct all kinds of traffic your way.

GI Joe said...

to the 5 people who post and the 10 others around town who read this blog..hello!

And welcome back to reality.

Anonymous said...

some nasty stuff

GI Joe said...

1. If Smith get's elected, the world most likely will not end.
2.It not just radio listeners opinion that the recordings are not illegal.
3. No information from the "so called tapes" has been released to the public.
4. Mayor Tucker leaked information to Joyce Miles about the content of the executive Session.
5. Maybe the current concert promoter should be examined a little more closely. Sounds responsible to me.
6. I don't think there are any "Storm Troopers" poised to take over the city if Smith becomes Mayor.
7. I don't think anyone has an agenda designed to close Lockport businesses for immoral turpitude.
5. It looks like all city employees get free insurance for life. Smith receiving that benefit only places him on an equal playing field with the rest. Let's change the rule for all.
6. I don't find the prospects of Smith being the Mayor scary at all. I feel relieved.

Anonymous said...

Illegal or not, and whether Tucker also violated confidentiality or not, how can anyone defend someone secretly taping a confidential meeting? If it wasn't unethical he wouldn't have done it secretly. This goes to the character of the individual.

And I am a definite anti-King Tuck person. I was hoping for Smith to be real competition for him, but now his lack of morals has disappointed me.

And not to bring up a dead horse, but seeing the close to $1,000,000 profit HV will make building our new projects in town I do want to hear exactly how much of that Smith will make as the local head person for HV. It is relevant. And it isn't beating a dead horse if we never get an answer.

MJ said...

I don't believe Smith was making anything as the head of the board of the local organization, of which he stepped down a while back.

The local organization was to show local support in funding searches and to over see the project and its continues operation. It received 0.5% of the profit of the rent I believe. Chump change in low income housing.

It's a non-issue which died a while back. How about some real plans from the those running instead of the usual worthless generalities and character attacks?

I commend Tucker on getting the South Block finished, finally getting an assessment done (with all its inherent flaws) and moving the trash program forward. The last two controversial and prone to complaints and attacks from those running against him.

I commend Smith and the neighborhood block club for seeking out solutions to their neighborhood problems, finding one with a track record and bringing them here. A perfect system? Nope. But when ever is government low-income housing a smooth running machine. Also a leap of faith and prone to attacks.

There really may be nothing "wrong" with the questions people ask but the way they go about it. I'll share a post later. It may help you all in your daily personal and professional endeavors.

Anonymous said...

If he really did step down then thats OK, but he really should have stepped down before he voted to approve the project, I can't believe that it wasn't ruled a conflict of interest for him to vote for it.

MJ said...

I don't believe it was a conflict of interest since he had no monetary gain. The corporation council would have spoke up to let him know he would have had to if it it was required.

He stepped down most likely because it is just another red herring to be used against him or the project. Voters seem to like to vote on sensationalized non-issues.

Pol said...

if he voted on something that he would directly gain an income from, it's not really a red hearing. it may not be some evil conspiracy, but there's a reason that judges recurse themselves from cases, and why people become disqualified from becoming jurors.

Patti said...

To the best of my knowledge - as I have not heard Mr. Smith comment on any of the issues we face as he now runs for Mayor - I am concerned that he was strongly against the continuation of the concert promoter because she allegedly had an interest in a strip club out on Genesee Street. I have publicly stated my objections to the concerts, i.e. they draw people from everywhere, not only Lockport, and our taxes are paying for them. The cost of the concerts, IMHO, far outweighs their benefit. The police overtime, the clean-up expense, etc. all adds up. I don't like picking up the trash on my lawn the morning after. Most of my friends disagree with me on this one.
There was quite a brouhaha with regard to "Family Video" having an "X" rated room behind a door at the back of the store. I believe there was a contingency of some sort in the initial zoning/contract which prohibited this. I'd been in that place dozens of times and never knew it was there - but, then again, I wasn't looking for it. Adults should be able to engage in adult behavior in private.
No matter what position Mr. Smith did or did not have with Housing Visions, and I've been personally assured that it was and is "none," it's basic ethics in government that one does not vote on any issue in which you have a personal interest. Based solely on his being the front man, getting them here and, hopefully, building their buildings (I'm a bit leery of the expense and the renderings as well) there is a possibility that he will have a position once the project is completed. He should have recused himself from the vote. It doesn't look good and the appearance of impropriety is enough to have had him do so.
Mr. Smith's stated disinterest in the Flight of Five is troubling. A lot of time and money has been spent to bring the issue to the point where MILLIONS of dollars have been dedicated to their renovation. It would be downright foolish to throw that out because one man thinks it isn't worth it.
What does he propose to work on? I've heard nothing from him since he announced and there was one article in the paper. I'd prefer to not hear a list of political buzz words but solid plans for our city.
What is his experience other than a couple of years on the Council? What makes Smith the choice for Mayor?
In defense - all I hear from the Smith people is a trashing of Tucker which is exactly what I'm being accused of. John Ottaviano could not issue an opinion on a situation he was unaware of. Conflicts of interest wear many hats - money is just one of them.
I have no doubt that I am on at least one of his tapes, probably more. I'm a private citizen and sure don't appreciate that. (Digital media?)
None of you would either.

Anonymous said...

Interesting that Cuomo's new economic council for all of WNY (instead of each county having one) has already stated that the money they receive will go to building jobs, not tourisom.

Anonymous said...

I doubt we will see the money for the locks money will rightfully be going to create jobs (not summer tour guide jobs either)-
"“That’s just another thing that will bring tourism to Lockport, but it’s estimated at $4 (million) or $5 million,” Ross said. “Because the governor’s aim is at bringing jobs to the community, I’m not sure this will fit the program, because it’s more tourism-based.

GI Joe said...

1. The HV dead horse is definitely dead. Do more research if you're still obsessed with the details. Have ya been down Genesee lately? Think we need a change?
2. How can anyone talk about John Ottaviano and Michael Tucker,and Conflicts of interest, and not mention the GLDC?
3. We are 30 days from the PRIMARY. I have a feeling Mr. Smith's plan for Lockport will be ringing in your ears by the time election day rolls around. It's a good balanced plan from what I hear.
4. It was Andrew Chapman who objected to the video store with adult movies.
5. It was Andrew Chapman who objected to the fact that the city entered into a business agreement with a promoter who owns/operates an adult entertainment club. That's his right.
6. Got something against people with strong Christian beliefs?
7.Smith's "people" don't fixate on "just trashing Tucker". If you mean the two Smith supporters that regularly post here? maybe. Has Tucker done such a great job that he's beyond reproach? Or is he "Trash-exempt"?
8. The well written litany "what you get if you vote for Smith" was not posted by Smith, but I'm guessing it falls in line with Smith's "vision for the City".I think you would be advised to read it again if you have doubts about his sincerity.
9.The popularity of the concert is split. But I would say most tax paying funding residence don't want it. I almost fell of of my chair when I saw Pasceri say " I talked with a concert goer from Rochester." Thank Madam President you hit the nail right on the head.
10. I bet that at the last minute right before the election "someone" will attempt to bring Smith up on "ethics" charges for making super, secret, shocking "tapes" of the Super Secret Meeting that Tucker leaked to the press. A little "October surprise" as they say. I heard Smith's heavily lawyer-up with some fire-breathing SOB lawyer from Buffalo. I don't think he's too worried about it.

Anonymous said...

maybe his fire-breathing S.O.B. attorney will shed some light on the real corruption?

Anonymous said...

During the break Joe must have learned how to count. he's gone from double posting and putting ....'s in every post to now numbering everything!!! LOL

Anonymous said...

Yes we need a change on Genessee, but the change shouldn't be adding more welfare apartments it should be getting rid of some. But that's a dead horse now, they are going in.
It's not a dead horse finding out if Smith is still in charge of the local HV group and if he will get a portion of the ridiculous profit they are going to make off building the million dollar palaces.
Secretly taping a confidential meeting is unethical, legal or not. Sorry, but he already lost the election by doing it. And I don't like King Tuck, I wanted him out.
I am against spending our tax dollars on the concert while we cut other areas such as youth programs. But you have it wrong, the reason for the concerts isn't to entertain the local people, it is to bring out of towners in to spend money and see the city - hence the Rochester people are a good thing. But I do think they need to be canceled. Besides most of the local people at the concerts aren't taxpayers they are all the local welfare recipients from Smith's neighborhood!

Pol said...

1. it is only 'dead' due to silence, and not because of any answers given
2. are they directly benefiting from things that they work on and then vote on? unless you can cite similar situations, this is a total straw man argument. granted gldc type organizations are part of the problem, and in no way part of any solution, but that does not appear to be the position you were taking, nor is that germain to the topic you were defending.
3. care to share any of this inside information, or have you been asked not to share anything yet?
9. ad populum (where the numbers are pure speculation). also when were people coming in from outside the city to enjoy themselves a bad thing? i would agree though if we were talking about standards of how loud the concerts could be, how late they can go, how to handle parking, enforcement, etc, that could be a valid discussion, but again, not one that you were trying to engage in.
10. sheer conjecture, and the only 'october surprise' that i've ever seen was a freak snow and ice storm, no matter how many times people have speculated about an 'october surprise' (and that is in reference to both sides and not one single person or party).

GI Joe said...

1. You want answers? go research the project. The candidate may respond during a debate, but he's not going to come here and get into a public pissing contests with you and others.
2.GLDC: "gives the appearance of a conflict of interest" it's undeniable.I would say that a "Forensic Accountant", someone who really knows how to dig would have a field day in Lockport.
3. No I don't care to share.
9.People from out side of the city coming here to enjoy themselves became a bad thing when I started to pay for it. "No" to your reasoning. The problems exist partially due to the false premiss that they( the concerts) have some financial benefit for the tax payer, or business owner.There are no hard numbers to prove any benefit. That is where the conjecture originates.I'm OK with parking, loud music etc.. I'm not OK that people have witnessed "cash" being exchanged between participants after the show. I'm not OK That city workers are doing the "promoters" work. Where's the accountability? Show me the balance sheet.
10.Let's just say on THIS topic you don't know "Jack".

Pol said...

1. well, he did not respond to direct questions when he did post here under the guise that he wanted to meet with everyone who had a question face to face, or at least only after knowing someones personally identifiable information. also, poisoning the well and getting to the point of a circular argument. the con side ask the question citing a lack of evidence on the record, while the pro side say it's a non issue, and anyways, look up the information yourself. either the information regarding smith's financial ties to Housing Visions is public and can be found, or it's not. so far, the only on record evidence that can be found was a statment regarding that the local group would be able to collect a 'nominal' (weasel word) amount of the month rents. past that, if the pro side thought that the information was available, you think that they would use it in defense of their position.

2. so, not only is it an unrelated statement, it is one without teeth. in addition Tu Quoque.

3. fair enough, but if that's the case, why mention it in the first place?

9. you pay for it every time they drive down a road, park under a street light, etc. if there are shenanagins going on, please, do the city a favor and expose it. also, Argumentum ad Ignorantiam.

10. again, sheer conjecture, speculation, and now what is emerging as a campaign slogan to boot.

GI Joe said...

1. just your opinion. Shouldn't be given any weight.
2. The Latin is cute but given that most of the population would fail a 5th grade English/ grammar test, no one is impressed well, except you maybe.
3. I think I can mention anything I want without your approval.
9. Let the city attorney do his job. It's not my place to contact the Attorney General.However, we ignore the big obvious problems and focus on petty arguments.Dolus malus.
10. call it what you like.

Patti said...

I don't agree with your translation - or your probable translation -"evil intent?" I sure don't call it that. Where IS Jack Smith - or is he totally ignoring Mike Pillot simply because he was the last Democrat trounced by Tucker? (I like Mike Pillot, myself - he's a good guy. He also shouldn't be ignored by Smith. Mike's a hometown guy while Smith is not. That's a huge benefit in this town.) Instead of speaking up for himself, he has his minions do it for him here. WHY? (Phyllis Green doesn't fall into the Pillot category - unless she swears to, and does, totally upend her life and spend 12 months a year in Lockport.)
What ever happened to Deo ac veritati? Based on the behavior of some of these folks, they sure don't believe in it., despite their claims to the contrary. Smith, to this point, is a tabulae rasae in quibus nihil scriptum est. A blank slate. One doesn't win anything by blaming the other guy for everything.
The benefits of a classical education are never wasted.

GI Joe said...

1. You're assuming he's ignoring Pilot. Not True. He has asked for a debate. Pilot has not responded.
2.Pilot is a good guy? Maybe he is. It's irrelevant. That doesn't mean he can govern.
3.The Latin thing? a little silly don't ya think?
4. If Smith is a blank slate, I think you need to stand by.His actions are strategic. Maybe you're not in tune with what he's doing, and that's your decision and right.

MJ said...

"One doesn't win anything by blaming the other guy for everything"

I like this quote. Unfortunately it seems to be 80% of all political campaigns. The other 20% some generic babble on change.

If given nothing else to vote on, you have to wonder if it's not the reason a good number of people don't even bother to vote.

Patti said...

Agreed, MJ.
I can't make a rational decision based on what Smith has said and done to this point. As we're three months out from the General Election, I suggest he might want to do so - assuming he wins the Primary. My decision, based upon that which the two probable candidates have accomplished thus far, is squarely on Tucker - and those who know me know that Mike and I have had serious disagreements in the past.
I simply can't see placing my city in the hands of a guy who hasn't done anything while on the Council and, to boot, has me on tape (digital media). THAT is beyond the pale and if, and until, he provides a darn good reason for doing so, I can't trust the guy.
The education level of the common electorate in this County is approximately at or about the 8th Grade. Those who vote do have a higher level of education but, unfortunately, even they don't bother half the time as stated by MJ.
Having been raised, and lived by, the Alfreda Slominski School of Politics, I have significant experience in such things.
The Latin thing? Silly? Perhaps - but it sure is fun.

GI Joe said...

I'll agree with fun :-) back to the numbers.

1. On Jack Smith..."Placing the city in his hands" The point of his candidacy is that Jack Smith believes that the Mayor makes the final decision, but the city remains in the hands of the PEOPLE, who are represented by the Alder-persons, who work with the department managers.
2. I also heard Smith say that if he is Mayor each Alder-person would be required to hold monthly open meetings within their ward.

I like the sound of that! That's more of what we need. Do you really want to re-elect a mayor who tells his Alder-persons they can't speak to department heads? You seem too smart to favor that kind of management philosophy.You also seem much to intelligent to vote against your own best interest.

Anonymous said...

-Smith can't be trusted participating in a confidential meeting, how can he be seriously considered to run a city?
- We already have a mayor who doesn't have a clue as to how to manage people. He never had any experience doing it until elected, and has failed miserably based on the number of lost personnel lawsuits the city has had. Since Smith is doing a 'stealth' campaign (including his 'stealthy' taping - lol), we don't have a clue if he has any management experience nor his background. Also, why did he move from NT?
-We have two candidate saying they are against recycling, don't they know it's a state law? i do think the huge totes are overkill though, mine will go out every couple months.
-Forgetting the Hoffman debacle, why hasn't anyone raised a stink about giving Allen ANOTHER raise already to $82,000 for a 35 hour a week job? What is his connection with Tucker?

Obviously I don't feel we have a solid candidate that I am excited about running this year.

Anonymous said...

it's not even primary time. What does Pilot know?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 4:25 Explain what the sentence below means to you.

"Obviously I don't feel we have a solid candidate that I am excited about running this year."

Anonymous said...

Sorry, brain was going faster than fingers.

Obviously I don't feel we have a solid candidate running this year that I am excited about.

Pol said...

"1. just your opinion. Shouldn't be given any weight."

1. his public statements are not an opinion, but a matter of record.we know that he is/was the director of the local chapter, and we know that the local chapter is/was set to receive a "nominal" percentage of the rental fees collected.that's not an opinion.

"2. The Latin is cute but given that most of the population would fail a 5th grade English/ grammar test, no one is impressed well, except you maybe."

2. so i was the only one who read the article that MJ gave us as 'homework' in his absence? also, rather snide comment and not a defense of your position.

"3. I think I can mention anything I want without your approval."

3. what you inferred, and not what i implied.

"9. Let the city attorney do his job. It's not my place to contact the Attorney General.However, we ignore the big obvious problems and focus on petty arguments.Dolus malus."

9. so, although you know of things that are taking place that are illegal and costing the taxpayers money, you don't feel the need to bring this to anyone's attention (besides making unsubstantiated claims here)? by turning a blind eye, are you not essentially in collusion?

"10. call it what you like."

10. if by that you mean call it what it is, i will continue to do so

GI Joe said...

1. most of the time you are just babbling. do you realize that?
2. I can't believe you're suggesting Smith has done something wrong by moving from NT. A comment only a paranoid person would make.
8.More Latin, very impressive You are either a Catholic Priest or an attorney with now clients if you have all of this time on your hands,
9. YOU contact the AG if you're so compelled to do so.
10. yes by all means keep your boring comments coming. we're all waiting....

By the way.."Comments by Numbers" is my idea.I've Copy Righted it's use. If you contiune to use it you're going to have to pay royalties.

GI Joe said...

Pol..first off do you believe quotation marks belong ahead of the numbers?

1. your comment about 1. is pure BS. Jack Smith believes that the city should be run differently. He has said it publicly, and I'm repeating it publicly. You come on here with you pompous attitude as if you are the ultimate authority and source for all things true and false. you're not.
2. The day's of the Tucker administration are drawing to a close. Some of you are having trouble facing that reality and you're looking and acting desperate.
3. I know who you are and you're as irrelevant today as you were when you sat on the Common Council.
4.You spend all of your time trying to slam me thinking that I'm a surrogate of Smith's.You take personal shots at me in an effort to discredit the messenger. Kind of childish. You look silly doing it.
5. Don't you have some Overhead Doors to fix?

Pol said...

1. so, in defense of your position, silence.
2. you are mixing your replies
3. no, just pointing out that you read something else into what i wrote.
8. no idea what you are replying to, but i will restate that it is due to the suggestions that MJ posted when he was on vacation.
9. i'm not the one with proof.
10. personal attack

GI Joe said...

not following you..what have I been silent about?

Pol said...

ok, so your new list of points because you abandoned the last group

first off, when i am quoting someone, and they wrote numbers, then yes, as that's the point of a quote. that way, it's easier to know what parts of the conversation that i am responding to in the hopes that multiple topics can be discussed at the same time.

1. no idea what you are responding to that i posted, but when something is reported in the paper as fact, and when something is said by the person in question, i will accept that as truth unless shown otherwise.

2. no idea what you are responding to that i posted. also, i do not have a 'dog in this hunt', i have no vested interest in who is mayor other than as a citizen

3. last i checked, mj specifically requested that there were no more 'witch hunts'. if believing that you know who i am helps you to sleep at night, why should i object?

4. i think you are having delusions of grandeur. all i am doing is trying to engage in a conversation with someone who would rather dodge and accuse. i had hoped that the break would have helped everyone calm down, but that does not appear to be the case. i suppose the best thing would be to just ignore you again.

5. sure, why not. see number 3 above. pleasant dreams pookie.

GI Joe said...

It's a "dog in this fight" "not a dog in this hunt." As Patti says" if you're gonna play with the big boys, get it right".
101. That stands for "Creativity 101" I started numbering the remarks, so I'll make the rules. They were NEW numbers they don't go back in time and refer to every previous #1 remark.

My delusions are my business and my opinion. Who assigned you the responsibility of caretaker of the truth?

4. Dodge? accuse?..apparently you're having problem processing all of the big words. That's more like it.read your own postings my friend.

If you can't follow the logic that's your problem. Your a "shifter" all of your short-comings become someone elses problem. You can read so it's becomes the writers fault.

Pol said...

quick note, "dog in this hunt" is also a correct idiom

the rest of your post i will leave unanswered for reasons that should be apparent to all

GI Joe said...

No.."That dog can hunt" would be the correct colloquil use of the term.

"apparent to all"?

ya..all 5 of us.

MJ said...

With 650 views yesterday I appreciate the the 130 page views yesterday attributed to each.

With the tone that commenting takes it should be easy to realize why not many choose to partake.

GI Joe said...

you can dump this right after you read it.

hey...I tried. If you go back to when you turned the switch back on you can see who the "fire-breathers" are.

I have vigorously respond to some shots taken at me, but I have not gone head-hunting after anyone. My comments have been limited to the number system and have not been personal. Then enters Pol and you get more of the old smarmy smart-ass shots. I'm sure you're sick of it. I'm about to stop posting.

MJ said...

Things have been somewhat better which as been nice. I have not dreaded coming here in the AM and seeing what ensued the night/ weekend before.

If just one person could ignore the small childish stuff added in I would not have to debate deleting relevant entire posts for a small stupid jab. It would die away. We are adults. Ignore it. No one is using their real names besides me and make a couple others. There is really nothing for you to defend.

It's like perpetual parenthood here. I always told my much younger sisters to go work it out amongst themselves. The only problem here is that I can't send the bickering ones to a different room.

Tucker, Smith others have all followed here. Some have lamented where the commenting has slid too and moved on. I wouldn't blame them.

If commenters feel like they are being ignored they should look inside first as to the reason why. Make a majority of your comments a waste time for people to consider spending time on then don't be surprised when they start to ignore them all.

GI Joe said...

point taken

Patti said...

Agreed. Surprisingly.

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