LCC - Canal St - Gooding St area

Posted by Anonymous

Ulrich Canal St NCCC Plan Orig
My "Markup" of the area

To start off, the drawing submitted by Ulrich is way off scale (as it notes). The gazebo area is shown to be a nice cozy area instead of the large streetscape divider that it is. There are also several buildings missing (Zimmie's Scrito's) and I'm pretty sure north is pointing the wrong way but I will still use it as a reference start point.

1) Infill around the buildings to create as complete of a streetscape as possible. Density is our friend in trying to create an area that tourists, and residents will find interesting and want to walk along (and support)

2) Abandon Gooding St from Caledonia St to Ontario St. Create a new city block that could provide more amenities to those visiting the area. Right now the intersection is a large mess of asphalt that supports reckless driving and makes the area overall unfriendly and unsightly. Any new buildings here could house Lockport Cave Tours and give them direct access to the stairway and parking in the next bullet. It could also provide a landscaped walk over to the stairs right from Canal St.

3) Create a new municipal lot in the former ceramics plaza at the end of Caledonia St. This parking would be for Lockport Cave Tours and any other uses in the future buildings. If a structure similar to Ulrich City Center was built it would provide an interesting place for visitors to walk past over to Canal St and conversely provide those businesses prospective customers walking by. The Gooding viaduct and the residential past it make this a good start/stop point for placement of large scale parking.

4) With a new smaller 4 street intersection instead of 5 it would be an easier place for people to navigate. Continue the Main St crosswalk/streetscape design to tie the areas together. Make Canal St a one way over to City Hall to provide some vitality along the street.

5) With "people" being key (nothing draws a crowd like a crowd) lets get some residential components worked in. Mixed use tax breaks are available. Maybe the college could even build some units. One floor on Canal must be an apartment due to past funding sources. Buffalo had found success and N. Tonawanda is moving on a loft conversion. If we don't want a parking lot ghost town most of the day, we need the after 5 component of residents.

Lots of public money has, is and will be going into this area. A master vision is a must for it to reach its potential. It would also help sell each portion of it to individual stakeholders (and those to be). What are your thoughts on the area?

Interactive Google Map. - Join the Fun:

View LCC - Canal St - Gooding St area in a larger map

UPDATE: Intersection over 100 years ago: (Thanks Jeff)
What once existed in places never ceases to amaze me.


Rocketboy said...

2> I would advise against that, and instead, modify the intersection. At worst, I would abandon Lock Street between Caledonia and the south end. This could also increase the usable area in that section, making it more equitable for use. If not commercial, we should be using it as park land.

3> Are you talking about the R.Peer Plumbing building? If so, I would leave it up to them. If not, I would think you were talking about the property along the canal that's split by the train tracks. With the exception of the train, I think it would make great housing. It would be a non-invasive way (*cough* the towers *cough*) to sell the view from the canal and the escarpment. But again, the train (which I touch on more below). And the truck route.

Don't forget, you are also working with an area with two large empty factories (the old Sherwood plant & the old cardboard plant, which was bought out last year, so maybe in a few years it will be used again).

Also, I'm not sure what your plan for the Gooding Viaduct is. I'm not sure you realize how busy of a train run it is. With the promise of federally funded ethanol plants, Amtrack was actually trying to close some of the railroad crossings in the north end to traffic.

I've started a Google Map, and marked up some of my notes in Blue.


LoneWolf said...

Hey guys~(long post warning)

While I DO agree with SOME of MJ's(mostly Canal/Richmond Street use) points one that I do have a problem with is as Rocket Mentioned the moving of Lockport Cave Office(as noted on his map he gave a link to).

As me being a tour guide for said business,. it would be .. shall we say ..impractical for us (as tour guides) to move to the space indicated(new area) .

Granted YES it is close to the stairway( as MJ mentioned) but the Towpath SHOULD BE opened by the end of this season and be acessable by next season. Right now as it stands we can show the ORIGIANAL entry to the cave ( where the water came in from the 1800's right across from our ticket office.

If we were to move to the "proposed" area we(*tour guides and public) would have to "double back" from tours to show the original entry.

With the location we are in , once the towpath is re-opened, we can go from out ticket office, straght down to the locks , show the original entry way, explain about the locks and walk straight to the cave entrance.

Many people already "balk" at the idea of the stairs and the ammount of walking happening on the tour.

As far at the intersection at Pine,Gooding,Lock etc. yes is IS A MAJOR HAZZARD. I have almost been hit a NUMEROUS TIMES while doing tours. It seems like people either; dont see or dont care that there are STOP SIGNS at the intersections.

Will enlarging it help? MAYBE but doubtful. It MAY cause more of a hazzard that it already is.

We NEED CROSS WALKS is what we need at that intersection. OR some way to let drivers know there are pedestrians walking back and forth.

As far as the "eyesore" that Rocket indicated on the map im guessing he refering to what was ( or still is) Kohls. That is a historical building(i belive was cold storage in the 1880's)

Regarding Removing RPeer.. that I KNOW is a historcal building.. might not be on the registry, but it IS historical, it WAS part of the Holly Mfg. complex ( yes I have proof of that) so getting rid of that would NOT be an option.

As far as the "truck route" there are already enough problems with what there is now.. the trucks are ALEADY goin thru what is PARTIALLY residential.. the companies are gone now that would need the trucks ... (Sherwood and the carboard factory). I say Take the Truck route out TOTALLY (down 78). There are other ways to get to Wrights Corners with out having the trucks "chew up" city Streets and make the City itself looks like "speed bump city" (where rt 31 lies now to Cold Springs and then back on to 78 comes to mind, id the Cold Springs Bridge woudl be able to take the weight, or Rt 104 comes to mind as well)

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the comments.

This was done in MSPaint so its overly simple. I want to do it again in Photoshop with an actual to scale map.

TO continue the conversation:

1)My initial thought was to abandon part of gooding and part of calidonia angling Gooding over to Lock.

2) I'm not talking about any buildings (I don't like knocking them down.) The only one I removed here is the oil change place in the small Caledonia, Lock, Gooding triangle.

3) The viaduct remains. I mentioned that it is a "natural" end to the area. Won't get to many visitors wanting to walk under it. That's why I place the municipal parking near it and the tracks. The two buildings you marked are on the opposite side and out of the scope of my post. The old stone building is great though and should be preserved through rebuild, or using parts of its stone facades on other buildings in the city.

4) The truck route is tough. Best would be a 78-Business through the city and a moving the "regular" 78 to go around the city for thru-trucks.

5) The Lockport Cave owner came to the Zoning Board to get approval to build a ticket office, parking lot and bus turnaround in this old ceramics area. I'm just adding more uses to it to make it a desirable area with more possibilities for visitors/residents. Once the tow path is open they could walk a loop down the stairs, along the locks, up the ramp, down Canal St and then along any new buildings on Lock/Gooding. Point out to them there's a nice NCCC restaurant with Canal views over the bridge.

6) I did not make the intersection bigger. I made it smaller with the cross walks like you mention.

Let me know you think. I'll work on a more accurate version.

LoneWolf said...


My mistake.. about making the intercetion bigger(ooops on me my apologies) in that case making it SMALLER would be ideal .. I agree there.

I took a second look at your "mark up" and also at one of the renditions that I have on file here from the 1800's (courtesy of my recent vist to the Historical Society) And it looks VEREY SIMILAR to the way it was back then when Holly Mfg. was there. Gooding Street cut off .. and Caledonia and Lock "meeting" each other.

Also, even "back then", the Lock, Canal, Ontario, Pine intersection, was a 4 WAY intersection. Of course Holly Mfg. was there so there wasnt much of a choice in the matter LOL.

Ill make a scan of what I have and submit it.

I'll have to author a new thread though cause I cant add pics to follow up posts. Or at least I cant find the option to do so. :(

About the cave owner goin to the Zoning Board.. yeah I knew about that.. that's a diffrent discussion altogether LOL .

Anonymous said...

feel free to email it to me and I'll add it to the post.

Anonymous said...

RB: add me as a map collaborator and I'll add some comments to the map and insert it into the post.

Rocketboy said...

Humm.. it should be open... try this link...


Anonymous said...

Thanks. Added my $0.02 and added to main post.

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